And I actually disagree with you about post strength! In my experience (in this one small part of the world I’ve always lived in), people respond to slang and aggression and posturing. My language in posts is a reflection of this; I write like I talk and I talk like I’ve always talked. I wish I could tell you otherwise, but I’m not about to change that.

Interestingly enough, this post had the most complex and varied response of any of my posts on this blog to date. I don’t believe it’s because I used the word “pussy”, but clearly the word didn’t hurt the strength of the post.

But I don’t think happiness is very complex. It seems plausible that we could have two people, one buying heroine, the other buying a certain video game, and they’re both thinking “I want to do this because it will give me pleasure.” And when the thing is handed over, they are happy, because they now have what they were coveting.

Alternative argument: I don’t think QTEs are much more sophisticated than drugs. I think they may give people pleasure, but will they make them happy? I don’t see how drugs are much better.

Orwellian-ness…

I don’t think intent matters. Like your “humans working unconsciously in some stage of the manufacturing process who are just trying to feed their kids”, ignorance is enough to shift the blame away from you… but it’s not enough to argue that your actions can be smiled upon.

I still think there are negative consequences to QTEs: they waste time and money, and people’s lives are so short, so low on leisure time, so already full of meaningless crap. But, I guess I don’t have anything more negative than that…

In the book “Brave New World”, which I have not read, there is a consequence-free drug called soma. Everyone takes soma, and everyone is happy and productive. But they’re so happy that they don’t really bother with anything else. They don’t think for themselves, they don’t have much interest in art… and they don’t have much interest in entertainment either. There’s no desire for any diversity in emotions, any humour or romance or sympathy with characters. All they need is soma, and they’re satisfied.

Brave new world is especially horrifying because everyone on earth is the same. But is really ok to just let *individuals*… crawl into those skinner boxes and live out “happy” lives in them? Personally I’d rather live in chronic pain than have an idea of enjoyment that went no wider than playing farmville. You say the difference between drugs and bad games is physical harm… I’m not so sure about that =/

And maybe it is worse than we both thought, but I still believe that the excited sensation one feels shelling over their cash for their next bump is not happiness. I would argue that happiness is a complex arrangement of different things where joy/euphoria are just a part of the equation. But I might be very naive and optimistic about the nature of happiness.

RE: QTE’s being Orwellian; very fucking compelling! I honestly never thought about it like that, despite regularly thinking about social and power dynamics. Knowing what I know about most of the people I’ve ever personally known, I don’t think I can disagree with this notion.

But what about intent? I still don’t imagine that the scenario designers on NG3 or AW are intending to exploit people in this manner. I still posit that they are doing it because they sincerely think it’s cool! So if there’s no malicious intent and more importantly, NO NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES, who cares if this specific type of game play mechanic is exploitative?

And that’s still the thing that gets me about the drug part of the conversation; drugs do actual, physical, damage to you (again, talking about the synthesized drugs that wreck your body). QTE’s just trick you into thinking something for a couple trivial moments.

And this is going to make this SUPER STICKY, but I also don’t have a problem with the fact that there are people who submit within a power dynamic and it makes them genuinely happy to do so! I’ve known people like this! I can FEEL their happiness! Sometimes literally! The worst case scenario here is that there are malicious designers/producers out there pushing QTE’s simply because they get off on making mechanics that enslave people for a few brief moments/hours and some people are genuinely happy to be enslaved. And that’s fine. Especially since that’s not everyone, or even close to it. And again, QTE’s, low interaction mechanics, and watch ‘em ups aren’t fucking up anyone’s bodies and minds and subsequently, their lives.

I don’t think it’s the future! It will be a part of the future, but not THE future, certainly. Also, I am speaking out. With Aztez.

You say “When people spend their money on more crack cocaine… they are not happily spending their money”, but you might be kidding yourself. My friend, six messages up, I was kidding myself into thinking “no-one REALLY enjoys QTEs, do they?”. The human condition is sadder than we have both previously thought @_@

I wasn’t trying to convince you crap games are like drugs… all I’m trying to do is show that your argument “anything’s justifiable on some level if it causes enjoyment in someone” doesn’t cut the mustard. You can’t maintain that “exploitation that makes you feel good” is ok, while saying crack is evil.

Now how much work do I have to do to prove to you that QTEs are exploitative? I know you agree with me that they are subjectively boring. I know you agree with me that they’re objectively dishonest. I know you are aware that they carry a huge opportunity cost (animators, John Hurt etc). Here’s possibly the biggest problem though:

QTEs are Orwellian. “do this exact thing we tell you, and that shall make you happy”. It rewards obedience and punishes anything else, including thought.

Combine this with the fact that QTEs are bland. What do they have offer? The cool animations and narrative? No, it’s not them, I don’t think you can argue that, since a cutscene would be objectively better at delivering those things. There must be something else people like about QTEs.

I put it to you that humans partly desire an authority we can submit to. I put it to you that we LIKE being told exactly what to do and doing it quickly, and being patted on the head for doing so. We certainly like performing arbitrary religious rituals and pretending that they’re meaningful! Perhaps we also like slavery. And that’s why we like QTEs.

Is this an instinct that you’re happy to see flattered? To see the rich exploit in the impressionable?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY9NO4GQJRk

Outside of our argument… I worry, Ben. What if this is the future of games, AND the future of film? I fear that unless people speak out, it will only get worse.

(Now imagining God of War’s QTE kills in Choose Your Own Adventure format)

Maybe that’s never been a problem because it’s clear that Choose Your Own Adventure books are intended for people who primarily read books instead of being marketed as the next Dungeons and Dragons?

2. I know what you’re saying and I love that about you! But I am not philosophically opposed to exploitation that makes you feel good! Remember, I’m the guy who will Q-tip his ears until they bleed! Haha! I don’t do this often, I promise! My ears are fine. But I’m conscious of it. If person A is going to exploit person B in order to make them feel good (knowing that person B COULD compromise themselves in the process) I believe it is on person B if person B ends up compromising themselves. This is the savage part of me that believes we should all be strong and know better, even if we all don’t.

3. I don’t think Watch ‘Em Ups are nasty though, and I don’t think the people that like them and appreciate QTE’s have are doing anything wrong or shitty. And I’m still positing that being lied to (consciously or otherwise) is not wrong. How could it be? I also believe that the people that have made QTE’s and have made Watch ‘Em Ups are sincerely trying to do something cool for people who sincerely think low interaction mechanics are cool. So yeah, make those things for them! Just don’t make ‘em look like MY thing over here which is ultimately different. In all fairness, I DO believe what Tecmo Koei did with NG3 is inherently nasty, because they KNEW people would buy it expecting A when they knew it was B, so fuck them.

4. I certainly acknowledge the difference between “escapist” and “exploitative”. But YOU seriously need to acknowledge that they can be one and the same. But that’s okay!

5. I absolutely agree with you that crack cocaine is exploitative. It destroys lives, we should condemn the dealers and manufacturers (the conscious manufacturers, not the indigenous lower class humans working unconsciously in some stage of the manufacturing process who are just trying to feed their kids), and yes, I would call crack cocaine use illegitimate. It is definitely not selfish to want the manufacturers of drugs (themselves very potentially valuable humans) to be employed elsewhere.

HOWEVER! The difference between exploitative games and exploitative drugs (the synthesized drugs with intentionally potent addictive properties) is that drugs directly compromise your decision making capabilities. Even if you subscribe to the concept of videogame addiction, you can’t argue with the VAST difference between the blunted endorphin response of indirect addictions (gaming, gambling, masturbation, food) and the direct addictions of chemically predatory drugs. When people spend their money on more crack cocaine, I would argue that they are not happily spending their money. They might have convinced themselves of this! But they are spending that money on more drugs because their body will punish them if they don’t.

I’m curious about what the world would look like if it operated according to your ideals. And I’m totally not being patronizing, I would sincerely love to see it in action! As always, I love your brain, Hamish. :)